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November 15, 2007

Chat: Judge: Teen drinking not just problem for parents

Family Court Chief Judge Jeremiah S. Jeremiah, who recently made headlines for admonishing parents in Barrington over teen drinking, visited projo.com this afternoon for a live chat about the problem of teen drinking.

Jeremiah told projo.com readers that the police should more often bring criminal charges against parents who have contributed to a child's delinquency.

"I don't know why the various police departments do not bring this charge (contributing to the delinquency of a minor) more often," Jeremiah wrote.

Jeremiah also endorsed a reader's suggestion that he address the teen drinking problem by setting up a "moderated town meeting," involving the governor, head of the Rhode Island State Police, speaker of the Rhode Island General Assembly and the head of the Rhode Island Chiefs of Police Association.

In response to a question about lowering the drinking age to 18, he wrote, "I think they should raise the drinking age to forty."

Here's a transcript of the chat:

Edward Fitzpatrick: Judge, thank you for joining us. Let me begin by asking what prompted you to say that parents in Barrington are not taking responsibility for the underage drinking that has been linked to several deaths in that town?

Judge Jeremiah: I think I should qualify that statement by saying that it is a small minority of parents that are not taking responsibility for their children. I made the statement because recently I have had about 16 children from Barrington who appeared before me on alcohol related offenses and when I discussed the seriousness of the offense with the child and the parent, the parent related to me that it was not a problem. On one case a parent began being very argumentative with me or did not show respect for the court.


NancyD: 1. Penalties for alcohol-related offenses for minors seem to be at the whim of the judges. They are often minimal and do not act as a deterrent. How can the penalties be more consistent? 2. Adults need to be held more liable for providing alcohol to minors. From the mis-informed parent at a graduation party providing beer for her daughter's friends as long as she has taken away the car keys to the 21-year-old-fraternity brother at a fraternity party who provides alcohol for his "brothers" who are 18 and 19. The relatively new procurement law was meant to do just that, but we are seeing "loopholes" that let offenders slip through the cracks. How can the law be amended to be more effective in penalizing those that provide alcohol to minors in a private home both inside and in the backyard? 3. The state of RI currently does not have enough staff at the Department of Businsess Regulations to check up on bars and restaurants to determine if they are following the Responsible Beverage Training Regulations. Ensuring that alcohol is sold responsibly is key to youth access to alcohol.
How can this be better regulated? 4. Underage drinking is as much an adult problem as it is an underage problem. What else can community members do to help prevent underage drinking?

Judge Jeremiah: Fortunately, each case of a juvenile who has an alcohol offense is treated differently than the other because we must look at the child and the family to see what related problems may exist, remembering that the Family Court is a rehabilitatvie court and our aim is to make a good citizen out of the child. 2. I am sure the legislature is aware of the loopholes and will try to correct them in the next session. You are right, adults need to take more responsibility. Sometimes, I wish that I could punish the parent instead of the child for their lack of responsibility.

ironmichael: Teenagers have always experimented with underage drinking. In some cases the parents are definitely to blame. But how can you single out the parents and not address some of the other sources?

Judge Jeremiah: In answer to your question, the Family Court is limited in its jurisdiction. You are right. The person who runs the package store, who makes the fake ID, who sells to minors, should be held accountable, but unfortunately, they do not fall under our jurisdiction.

cc: Does the Rhode Island Judiciary have any plans to institute a proactive education plan as it relates to the existing laws violating said laws and the penalties, for both children and parents.


Judge Jeremiah: What we hope to do in the Family Court is to establish a specialized court calendar to handle teenage drinking. This calendar will not only educate the child as to the impact of drinking, but will bring about meetings with a professional to increase the ability of the parent(s) to communicate with the child and understand the problems that child experiences as she/he matures.

Concerned Parent: What can parents do - really do - to help kids?

Judge Jeremiah: Concerned Parent: Parents can just show a lot of love and affection and build up a close relationship with their child. When was the last time you had dinner as a family? When was the last time your child was complimented for doing a good job? when was the last time you said, "I love you" to your child? or were you so busy with your own life that this goes neglected.


Donna: Do you have any suggestions for us citizens for what to do about a parent who knows their child is drinking (and drinking to become inebriated) and does absolutely nothing about it and continues to allow their child access to the automobile thereby putting other people at risk?

Judge Jeremiah: Donna: I would assume that a child under these circumstances is a neglected child under the law. I would suggest that you contact DCYF to report this.


BarringtonResident: Could a the teenager that was before you reasonably question your impartiality given your comments from the bench concerning Barrington parents and children? (Especially given that the use of alcohol has not been established and will undoubtedly be a central issue in the case)

Judge Jeremiah: I don't think you understand me. My whole objective as a judge is to make a child successful in life. I do not enjoy locking any child up at the training school. All I want to do is see these children from Barrington who have all the potential in the world succeed. With that, I'm sure I can be impartial.

dan: My question has to do with college students and drinking. It used to be you were somewhat protected and supported, if you will, on college campuses. Today, at URI, for instance, the university has pushed the kids “down the line” – now the Narragansett police harass them, house to house, pushing them out of the houses and into their cars. Where do they go? Providence – to the clubs – then they drive home after even a few drinks. Hopefully without killing someone or themselves. These policies are NOT saving our children – what do you think we can do – now – today – when we don’t have the luxury of time of changing mindsets – which is a long term goal?????


Judge Jeremiah: It is unfortuante the court does not have jurisdicition over the age of eighteen. The answer to this question is with the family. Meaning, if you have a good relationship with your child and can discuss alcohol related issues, the child may act in an appropriate manner as he/she grows up.

Ali: Would raising the driving age to 18 help with this problem??

Judge Jeremiah: No


Sandy: Your honor, as a resident of Barrington and a parent of 4 teens, I am somewhat surprised at your public portrayal of the residents of this town. Everyone I know are just hard-working good people. It is expected that uneducated, ignorant people would make a generalization such as this, but quite shocking that someone such as yourself would do so. My question to you is, how do you think this epidemic of underage drinking and mis-guided parental attitudes will be helped by making this a Barrington problem? Do you think quite possibly that you could use your position a bit more constructively to combat this problem?

Judge Jeremiah: It's obvious the recent article in the Projo that your did not read the second page. What I said was that it is a problem throughout the state and it effects only a small amount of parents in barrington. Read the paper again.


bookworm: Judge, do you have any remedies available to you in juvenile law where you can punish parents when they are clearly part of the problem?

Judge Jeremiah: bookworm: The parent may be charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. I don't know why the various police departments do not bring this charge more often.

Andrea (Panciera, projo.com editor): Judge Jeremiah just referred to a Journal report on his remarks during a hearing stemming from the recent death of a Barrington teen in an accident linked to alcohol. You may read the full story here.
It also includes a transcript of the judge's remarks that day, which you may go to directly here.

Jim: Has the teen drinking problem become worse over the years, or are kids pretty much taking the same risks now as they did when you first joined the bench? And do you feel it's a bigger problem in Barrington than elsewhere in the state?

Judge Jeremiah: Jim: I think the problem is the same, except police departments are more diligent. I don't think the problem is any greater in Barrington than anywhere else. The police department in Barrington is very diligent.

NancyD: So, what else can be done to hold adults responsible for underage drinking?

Judge Jeremiah: This is a good question, that I find very difficult to answer. For adults who do not take on the responsibility for raising a family are very hard to work with. Other than charging the parents with neglect or contributing to the delinquency of a minor, there is not much that can be done.

Eileen: Can you (family court) develop family programs that encompass both the child (offender) and the parents to raise awareness

Judge Jeremiah: Yes. We have already developed several program for this purpose. We have a specialized juvenile drug court where youngsters with drug/ alchol problems are referred for intense supervision and testing. The recidivism rate for this court is under 3%. We have a specialized program for children who have alcohol problems called YDD (youthful drunk driving) where children have a fifteen hour education course which includes spending 4 to 5 hours on a Saturday night at the emeregency room at RI Hospital to see what happens to victims of alcohol related accidents. There is another program where children are taken to the ACI and addressed by a former CEO who is incarcerated for driving under the influence death resulting. We have other programs that are too lengthy to describe. Please see the family Court's website.

Debbie: Judge: In all due respect, your answer about showing love and affection, etc, is a good one but it does not address what parents who are doing all of these things should be doing differently to help prevent their kids from abusing alcohol. A lot of kids who get into this type of trouble are from very good strong family units.

Judge Jeremiah: Debbie: You are right, I always say that you can be the best parent in the world, but have the worst child or the worst parent in the world but have the best child. I think the answer the question is that the values that we have now in society when we question the amount of salary of a teacher who is very important in the life of a child but will pay someone $5 million dollars who has a batting average of .230.

4Browns: Has it been determined where these kids are getting the alcohol from? It seems to me that the justice system need to hit the suppliers hard. We are the smallest state in the counrty, and we should have the toughest laws in the land. Others would see that our programs work and follow us.

Judge Jeremiah: 4Browns: In many cases, the alcohol is coming from the home or from liqour dealers who are more concerned with making a dollar than checking ID's.

bookworm: judge: any chance you could set up a moderated town meeting with you, the Governor, the State Police Commander, the House speaker, and the head of the Police Chief's Association?

Judge Jeremiah: bookworm: I have talked to several of my judges and it has been suggested that this is a good idea. It may happen in the future.


Norma: How can the schools help more? I taught high school for 30 years and have lost many promising young people to addiction. We offer programs and give advice, we talk to parents, on and on. What else is there? Is opening "drop-in centers"
an option - like the centers from the 70's? Are there grants available to begin programs to help with getting the message to students and parents?

Judge Jeremiah: Norma: I have great respect for teachers. They do a wonderful job of educating children. I don't know what else I could do. We have tried opening drop-in centers, but the children do not come because it is too childish for them.

Andrea: We've been talking just about alcohol abuse today. Judge, are you also routinely seeing other kinds of substance abuse? IF so, what kind? And is drinking the the most common substance being abused by teens?

Judge Jeremiah: Andrea: In my many yearts on the bench, I have had many wonderful children appear before me. Everyone of them has stated that they could get drugs and alcohol in the school they were in. I think smoking pot is just as prominent as drinking alcohol.


cc: How much of this problem of fatalites relate not only to drinking but risk taking reckless driving and,speeding on our roadways.

Judge Jeremiah: cc: They are all interelated. A person who has had a few drinks usually has a feeling of power and therefore will drink faster and more recklessly.


mjendza: What happens to the other kids in the car such as last week when the fatality occured. The other kids were just as responsible as far as drinking, purchasing and the decision to drive.

Judge Jeremiah: mjendza: Several years ago, I heard a case where a child was killed sitting in the rear seat of a jeep, where all the passengers and the driver had consumed a large amount of alcohol. I said to the father of the deceased child, "it is quite possible that had your child not been under the influence, it is possible that your child would not have been a passenger."

However, the authorities only looked to the driver and are not concerned with the other passengers.

bc: Judge Jeremiah, my son is the oddball out at URI because he DOESN'T drink! This is in the dorm rooms! He has to leave the room.....the room that we are paying for! They are drinking and doing drugs and he is there to become a teacher....he wants to learn they drink all night long!!!!!!!!!! He can't even study in his room! They are all underage.
My son finally said NO BOOZE NO DRUGS when I'm in the room.

Judge Jeremiah: bc: You should be very proud of your son. I am sure he will be very successful. I think this behavior by the other students should not be tolerated and should be made public. Maybe a call to Ed Fitzpatrick at the Journal, a reporter who is very concerned with this problem, would bring this problem to the attention it should.


Peter: What do you think about calls to lower the drinking age to 18?

Judge Jeremiah: Peter: I think they should raise the drinking age to forty.


Hope: I'm sorry Judge by why is my question not being answered? WHY ARE THE PARENTS NOT BEING HELD RESPONSIBE. Your arrest as theyshould be the liqour store owners but not the parents.

Judge Jeremiah: Hope: The parents can be held responsible, but it is up to law enforcement to charge them.


NancyD: Will communities have the option to send youth to your new teenage drinking court or handle it themselves at their respective juvenile hearing boards?

Judge Jeremiah: They will have the option. The only problem I have, althought the hearing borads do an excellent job, they do not report alcohol related arrests of juveniles to anyone. A youngster can be arrested in Newport, and again in Westerly, and Westerly would be unaware of the prior charge. We hope to correct this in the next legislative session.

Posted by Jack Perry  at 3:02 PM | Permalink

Comments

99% of these incidents involve alcohol and car keys.

Take the car keys away by raising the minimum age for a drivers license hey maybe just in Barrington.

Oh yeah and make liquor delivery illegal also so you have to walk into a store where a license can be verified by a card reader.

Jim | November 15, 2007 3:48 PM link

Judge Jeremiah tries to do a good job. However I have observed first hand that is the laziness and refusal of the local police to provide assistance to parents who are trying to control their kids, and looking the other way on parents who contribute to the delinquency that makes the problem much, much worse. I live out West now, and have seen the difference this can make. The police here flat out don't believe me when I tell them how it is in RI. It's sad but as long as the police don't help things go right by doing their jobs, this won't get any better.

karen | November 15, 2007 5:09 PM link

How appropriate is it for a judge to be making blanket statement pertaining to the entire population of a town. Even if it is used one hundred times for a good cause, the abuse of such commentary once, outweighs its benefits in the fact that it is a violation of an unbiased system. If the law can speak out about people from a certain town, why not be just as deterministic with regards to people themselves, should we be deterministic racially as well as geographically, judge should we be deterministic socially as well as economically? Figures of law and principle should be more careful with their speech and reminded that while they do share similarities, the bench is not a pulpit. Justice is already blind, she need not be daft.

barringtonian | November 15, 2007 5:39 PM link

How appropriate is it for a judge to be making blanket statement pertaining to the entire population of a town. Even if it is used one hundred times for a good cause, the abuse of such commentary once, outweighs its benefits in the fact that it is a violation of an unbiased system. If the law can speak out about people from a certain town, why not be just as deterministic with regards to people themselves, should we be deterministic racially as well as geographically, judge should we be deterministic socially as well as economically? Figures of law and principle should be more careful with their speech and reminded that while they do share similarities, the bench is not a pulpit. Justice is already blind, she need not be daft.

barringtonian | November 15, 2007 7:03 PM link

I guess I'm a little confused about all the attention that Barrington gets about teens drinking and driving. They are doing it EVERYWHERE! When kids from other cities and towns crash and die you hear a brief blurb about it. When a Barrington kid crashes and dies it is front page news and the top news story on all 3 local channels for days or in some cases weeks. Are kids from other cities and towns not newsworthy? Are their deaths not as tragic? That's certainly what it's beginning to seem like!

Pawtucket resident | November 15, 2007 7:38 PM link

I have to agree with the comments from barringtonian above: how scary is it that somebody in the position of Judge Jeremiah would vocalize a derogatory generalization toward an entire town like that? He also insinuated that Barrington parents shower their children with material possessions but give them no love or attention (that must be because they are all wealthy of course). Well, the most ironic part of all was when he said he has seen 16 Barrington kids come into his court in the past year. In the high school I work at we have 16 offenders of drugs/alcohol/violence on an given DAY! Where's his outrage about that???

A Providence Teacher | November 15, 2007 8:22 PM link

Judge Jerimiah, you should be sentenced to several days of meeting the family-oriented, hard-working, church-going residents of Barrington. You should drive by the sports fields on any given day during any season and see the fields jammed with parents! You should come to jam-packed, parent-filled school events! You should take a ride through our neighborhoods on any given day to understand the quality of family life in our town. Yes there are parents who have careless attitudes toward alcohol, in our town, and in every other city and town as well. Yes your comments were un-called-for, but more importantly, they have driven the attention away from a national epidemic that is killing our kids, instead, the focus is now on the rich, bad parents of the attention-starved kids of the Town of Barrington! Any type of prejudice brings unpleasant outcomes!

Deb | November 15, 2007 9:03 PM link

When did this become about the Judge? Funny, it's only the people from Barrington who try to change the subject...

What is this really about? It's about liberal parents who were stoned-out hippies in the 70s who think their kids should be having as much fun as they did. That way they get to be "cool parents." Finding no resistance to their indiscretions, the children of these nostalgic burnouts take it as far as they can- unfortunately, sometimes right into a tree.

EMT | November 15, 2007 9:25 PM link

How many of kids have to die before the rest of them figure it out? They are old enough to know the risks. One of the reasons people are weeping over Barrington is that they are well off, supposedly best and brightest, with a great future. Looks to me like they are the stupidest crowd in Rhode Island. How many funerals does it take to get the message?

providence girl | November 15, 2007 11:37 PM link

I find it borderline comical how certain people are trying to say the judge is sterotyping Barrington, the judge CLEARLY stated it was a minority of parents in Barrington and he was referring to first hand experience he had recently! Read the transcript and his comments again - you are misquoting the judge. Perhaps we should be discussing adult literacy in the state...

Adult Literacy | November 16, 2007 10:50 AM link

delvering alchol to homes? when did this take place? when i was a teenager you needed to go into the store to purchase. MAJOR PROBLEM!! i have 2 young boys and i am scared to death to think about what will be legal when there in the teen years...raise the drinking age, raise the driving age, police depts throughout the state get it together and do something!

lisa | November 16, 2007 11:22 AM link

Why not mandate late night community service at the area hospitals on the weekends, particularly on the popular drinking nights/occasions? It's time these kids (and their parents) get a first hand look at the possible consequences of underage drinking.

knorman | November 16, 2007 11:37 AM link

Barrington parents are taking this the wrong way. In turn, it's being stated the wrong way. Criticism is hard to take, I know as a parent we do the best we can, with what we know and how we were raised. We need to step away from the situation and hear whats actually being said. I don't think there are any parents that are bad or don't want the best for their children. I know, I stuck up for my son many times, looking back now I can see I did him no favors. He was the one that needed to step up to the plate and so did I. Years ago, if we got in trouble from anyone, neighbor, teacher, etc...we got in twice as much trouble from our parents. It didn't matter if we were fully at fault or not. I think we need to get back to that. As parents we should be able to call another parent and tell them what's going on, and not get chastised for it.
We as parents need to stick together. I think the Judge should be respected, and listen to what he has to say and take it to heart.
I believe we all be doing our children a world of good.
My eyes were opened, and my son is a better person for it. It was hard, but they are worth it! They are all worth it.

EG Mom | November 16, 2007 12:42 PM link

the judge is long on court success statistics, short on helpful suggestions, quick to broad brush (barrington parents are rich and negligent, along with the drinking age should be forty), and slow to diagnose and prescribe. any fool can see that the number kids from any town to appear before the judge is simply a product of whether law enforcement sends them there or not. the question i continually ask myself is how was i able to engage in similar social situations as kids these days do, and survive and succeed... what caused me to avoid these bad decisions and how can i imparte that on my kids? I dare say the VAST majority sees some of themselves in all of these tragedies... even the judge. constructive problem solving is prudent and necessary; broad brush criticisms get you articles and chat room appearances. I however have higher expectations of our jurists.

kevin | November 16, 2007 2:05 PM link

It's way too sweeping to brand all parents as neglectful. My own grandchildren have been very well brought up in Barrington, as have most of their friends. They prove that it's possible. But many of the parents there need to wake up to their main job, that of raising a good citizen and person.

Jane Hyde | November 25, 2007 6:23 PM link

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