Projo 7 to 7 News Blog

If Bishop Tobin (and the rest of the Catholic church) wants to have a voice in the laws of this state (and the nation), then perhaps it is high time they started to PAY TAXES on the MILLION$ of DOLLAR$ assets they have.

Sound fair?

Bishop Tobin needs to worry more about the shortcomings of the Catholic Church. How can you ask someone not to do their job so that they can be a good Christian? So feeding their families aren't as important as removing illegal immigrants from our country. Ask all the children over the past 40-50 years how good a Christian their priests were to them. The Church and Bishop Tobin are a joke.
Why then is Bishop Tobin stopping there or is this just the beginning. I am sure of one thing. If this country were run by Bishops and Popes and the like, We would be as extreme as some of the more radical islam countries in the world. The church would restrict so many of the things we'd want to do that I'm sure an uprising would be around the corner.
Get a real job Tobin and stop blowing smoke out of your a**.
Amen

What happened to separation of church and state? Illegal is Illegal! The church may think that they have some clout, but this catholic does what is right for my country first. Pay taxes, report the pedophiles and then we can talk.

The letter urges ICE agents to consider the morality of their actions??? Those priests who signed the letter should consider the morality of THEIR actions. Illegals are breaking the law. What part of that don't people understand?

How about this - I'm not Christian and I do not want FEDERAL agents not enforcing the laws that the Bishop feels violate HIS God's teachings. This is the stuff that made our founding fathers separate CHURCH from STATE. Bishop, your church isn't my church, your God is not my God and your church's teachings and dogma are not mine. Stop trying to fill your pews with illegals and ram your antiquated, blinder viewed opinions upon agents due to uphold that laws of the United States of America. That is the only law that applies in this instance, not the laws of your supposed divine prophet.

Now the catholic church is coming out in support of people who break the law - surprise, surprise after the debacle with the sexually abusive priests. Tobin, you need to get your own house in order first. Then, if you want to be involved in how the state/nation is run - START PAYING TAXES like the rest of us. Most of the citizens of this great country WANT the ILLEGAL immigrants to be taken care of. If this means raids to clean house, then so be it.

If you want these people to stay here (even though they have broken the law and we heve no documention of their backgrouds, i.e. health, legal, etc.) then you and the church step up and provide them with housing, jobs, legal assistance to become legal, food and medical coverage so they do not become a burden on society. Put your money (the Catholic church has plenty of it) where your mouth is or get out of the fight.

This is horrible. Read between the lines. These priest think they'll be able to bring in the hispanic population to replace all the others that have left the church, due to their sexual actions on boys. They just want to lure them in because the catholic churches have lost so much money due to people leaving the churches. This is a business tactic and Bishop Thomas Tobin is using God's name to promote it.

So if I am to read these ignorant comments am I to believe that the Bishop is not entitled to petition HIS government in the same manner that any of the rest of us are entitled to do so, just because of his faith and his job? The man wrote a letter to the Immigration Office. How many citizens write letters every day to federal agencies, Congress, or the administration requesting a change of policy? Why is any citizen less entitled than another to petition? You all sound like a bunch of fascists. I am sure that is not your intent, but it is the reality of your comments. You may disagree with his position, or anyone else's postion. But to insinuate that he does not have a right to voice it in a public forum like the rest of us do, goes against the spirit of our nation.

Perhaps Bishop Tobin would like to offer "santuary" to all the illegals in his churches. This could take the burden of supporting many of them off the taxpayers backs and allow the Catholic Church to shoulder the financial responsibility for taking care of illegal aliens, ie. housing, foord, medical care and education. It's a shame that this same Bishop is not concerned for the "working poor" who are legal citizens who are facing all the social cuts of daycare and medical coverage in this state. There are far too many who go to work every day (and sometimes have 2 or 3 jobs) to survive that are under employed, have no medical coverage and are now facing having small children left alone because of the increasing cuts to daycare assistance and the continuing rising costs of daycare. Even the YMCA is unaffordable for many. Where does Bishop Tobin stand on legal citizens who need help and have obeyed the laws? Seems that he has never made statements or petitions on their behalf. Send the illegals into the Catholic Churches! Bishop Tobin - ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL and I was taught that for 12 years in Catholic schools!

So the people who don't pay taxes ( preists) want to stand up for the people who don;t paytaxes ( illegals)? hmmmm.

These are also the same people who are immune to trouble for child molestation. hmmmmm

To give Tobin creedence is crazy

I am emmbarrest to be cathlolic so bishop what are you going to tell that women who got raped bye a "illegal citizen" that you support now. sorry you can't come to my church now because you want this "illegal citizen " or other like him or her in the church? shame on the church today for shame. And mayby its is time to start taxing the churches if they want political power.

It is a sad day in Rhode island today .

why dont you tell the police that they can't arrest priests anymore for abousing boys and girls to.

It is totally irresponsible for Bishop Tobin to wave his right hand and grant dispensation to law enforcers who would break our statues, which are designed to protect the rights of law abiding citizens. Tear a page out of scripture, Bishop, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."
Senator Reed, Congressman Kennedy and Langevin are still receiving communion even though they are pro-abortion....are YOU giving into Caesar and spiting God?

while even as i am a proud member of the Roman Catholic Church and although i may not entirely agree with the Bishop, i'm certainly not going to criticize, especially publicly, a man chosen by God to help oversee His Church for speaking out for what is right, that is, human rights. i guarantee that the media is not covering the entire story (they never do, especially when it come to the Roman Catholic Church) and that all of you are "blowing smoke out of your a##[es]" in just the same way you accuse the Bishop because you only have half the story. Regardless of your beliefs (or lack thereof) respect and dignity for the human person should come first in any and every person's life.....this world would be a much better place if we all were committed to this virtue!

Tim...Bishop Tobin has every right to send a letter expressing his views. What he doesn't have a right to do is provide aid and shelter to criminals. And yes, Illegal aliens are criminals. But I do agree with Bishop Tobin, any ICE agent who has a moral disagreement with performing the raids should have the option to opt out. The opt out letter should start with I am hereby tendering my two weeks notice....

Really, really, distressingly silly person to have authority over anything, isn't he. People sneak into the US against the law. He identifies with the illegals so he doesn't want the law enforcers to enforce the laws. I wonder if that applies to all the laws? The catholic church has done a lot to cause this problem by their "extra legal" actions for many years in asserting the right to offer sanctuary in catholic churches, etc. The reports getting back to home countries inevitably encourage more to sneak in illegally. I searched the bible and can find nothing which says it is ungodly for a country to regulate immigration. It does seem to violate the specific injunction to "render unto Caesar what is Caesar's... But perhaps the bishop is smarter than the person who spoke those words. We may want to consider that...and his humility too...

BISHOP TOBIN..I'M A ROMAN CATHOLIC.... YOU WANT CHURCH LAWS TO BE OBEYED, BUT ITS OK TO BREAK THE LAWS OF OUR NATION. 75-90% OF OUR CITIZENS WANT ILLEGALS DEPORTED. I WILL NOT ATTEND CHURCH ANY LONGER. YOU REPRESNT THOSE WHO NEGATIVELY EFFECT TAX PAYERS AND THE WORKERS OF THIS STATE, AND EFFECT THE RESULTS OF EDUCATION.

I must argee with Tim. We all have a right to our opinion here, however, just because the Bishop is who he is, you are all coming down very hard on him. Separation of Church and State...that's an excuse to not see the real issue here...illegal or not, these immigrants are people first and that is what the Bishop, priests and other Christian leaders are trying to make us see. There has to be another more humane way to get these people legal or return them to their countries, instead of corralling them and shipping them off to jail. They're working people, struggling to make it here, they have families and the Church is an advocate for them. The Church has every right to be their voice and to provide a sactuary for them. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness. It's for all, not for a select few.

I am glad to see the Bishop standing up for people without a voice. That's what Jesus called us to do. It may not be popular, Bishop, but it's the right thing to do. Good job.

The U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has called U.S. immigration policies "morally unacceptable" because they keep families divided

Dear Bishop Tobin, if an immigrant family enters this country illegally, an action which they should know before they do it, could lead to their family being divided, does this not lay the burden of responsibilty on the family making the conscious decision to enter anyway and not the immigration officials who are doing their job and enforcing the consequences of these actions? I do not understand the rational. Please explain this to me Bishop. If I choose to steal fillet mignon from a butcher shop and get caught and am sent to jail is it the butcher shop owners fault for charging to more than I want to pay or is it the police officers fault I was seperated from my family and sent to jail because he responded to the call from the butcher shop or is it MY fault for choosing the action I took? Please help me understand?

Illegal immigrants are to blame if families are divided, migrants are exploited or abused by human traffickers, not our laws, not ICE. Indeed, if immigrants choose to violate our immigration laws, then they should be prepared to suffer the consequences that naturally flow from such a poor decision. Do not blame our laws, blame the scofflaws for the heartache that results from enforcement efforts.

Is the Catholic Church willing to pay for all the illegal immigrants sucking this state dry? I think not!!! Meaning no disrespect here but he needs to shut up already!

So I guess to Bishop Tobin the draft dodgers from the Vietnam era were good Christians since they to believed in conscientious objection.

Glad I am no longer Catholic.

JD and Tim: Bishop Tobin does not have the right to stick his nose into matters of law. There is nothing immoral about the federal government implementing citizenship and residency laws, nor of enforcing them. Every country has them. I, for example, cannot simply trot over to PopeLand or any other country in the world and live there at will as a non-citizen, not without applying for residency. Every country has the right to kick out illegal aliens, people who were not born there or later became citizens.

The United States has a long-standing constitutional Separation of Church and State. The Government does not meddle in Church affairs, and vice versa. For this reason the Church has no legal standing and does not pay taxes.

But the handwriting is on the wall. The RC Church has become much more involved in politics, and will soon be forced to cough up dough just like the rest of us. Tobin is just testing the waters, because when they DO have to pay taxes, the church will begin to squawk 'in the name of God.'

I'm catholic but I don't agree with the Bishop's point of view in this case. I understand he is good intentioned and wants to help the portion of the illegal immigrant community, that are hard luck folks looking for a break. However, not all of the illegal immigrants are that way. Also, just because they had a hard time in their country does not give them the right to break the laws of our country. Having said that, the Bishop is certainly welcome to his opinion and should certainly voice that opinion. The ability to do so is what makes this country great. If you don't think so, just ask journalists in China right now for the Olympics. Also, while I do not agree with his opinion, the idea itself is neither as crazy as some of you would portray, nor is it without some precedence. In the military, which I served honorably for seven years, you can be consciencious objector. You may still serve in the military in some capacity, you will just be removed from combat duty. Don't jump on a man because you don't like his opinion, position or religion. If you don't agree, say so and why. However, please try to do so in an articulate and dignified manner. To do otherwise does more harm to you argument than good.

I have no problem if Tobin sent his letter on plain paper (read not letterhead). If however, he wrote his letter on church stationary, he begins to cross that line between separation of church and state. As we all know, separation between church and state must remain as such.

He has no right to try and force his religeous beliefs upon those who have solemnly swore to upold the laws of this country, who protect our rights as law-abiding citizens.

If Tobin wants to start voicing his religeous opinions, against federal policy, is he then voicing his agreement to renounce his tax-free status and become an actual contributing citizen and contributing entity within the state?

Something tells me his response would be no.

J-Dog said;
"So I guess to Bishop Tobin the draft dodgers from the Vietnam era were good Christians since they to believed in conscientious objection."

J-Dog, I feel the need to correct something. Draft dodging and conscientious objection are two very different things.

A conscientious objector is someone who is already serving in the military, whom based on religious ideals does not want to go on combat duty.

At that point it goes through an official review process to determine if the person should; A) be removed from service. B) Be removed from combat duty, but remain on active duty in a support role, or finally C) That person should be charged with dereliction of duty, insubordination and failure to comply with a direct order. The third is only used if they believe the person has no conscientious objection and is trying to defraud the government out of service.

Draft dogers didn't even have the courage to show up at boot camp, renounced their country and wanted to come back after the war like nothing happened.

A true consciencious objector can still be a patriot and still serve honorably.

if any law enforcement officer, whether it is state, local, or federal refuses to obey the LAW and does not arrest or otherwise detain an ILLEGAL immigrant, he or she shoul immediatley be fired. if that same officer refused to arrest or detain any other type of ILLEGAL activity, he or she would at the least be heavilly disciplined. if the bishop wants to do something about the problem, then when he becomes a TAXPAYER ALONG WITH HIS CHURCH, he can run for political office and if elected he can try to change the LAW. until then he is only promoting illegal activity.

These Catholics are such hypocrites! Let me get this straight... You expect me to welcome these illegals into my country with open arms, while they use up our country's financial resources, housing, and employment. I am a US Citizen. Born here, raised here. I am homeless because illegals take my jobs. Between corporate outsourcing and illegal aliens, I can't even get a job at McDonalds. I say keep arresting them, and DEPORT them. Hundreds of years ago when people invaded our country, we SHOT at them! Now we're supposed to let them stay because they snuck in and started families here?!? Send them all back.

Tobin ought to practice what he preaches. The Catholic Church has been kicking the dust off its sandals and fleeing the poor immigrant neighborhoods of inner cities faster than you can say Holy Communion. So much for compassion. Tobin has been selling off the real estate holdings left and right, and plumping up the coffers of the well-to-do, white-makes-right parishes. What a HYPOCRITE.

The catholic church should open up all their privated schools to the illegal immigrants they are so concerned about with no tuition charges, also provide them all with free healthcare. Bottom line, put up or shut up.

First off, I think some of the comments made about Bishop Tobin on this forum are disrespectful and certainly wouldn't be said to his face. I think the Bishop has taken a stance that is quite brave and he should be lauded for at least attempting to stand with those he sees as vulnerable. That being said, I believe that he is only telling one side of "the story" and not fully representing Catholic doctrine.
Here is the actual Catholic church teaching in regards to immigration straight from the USCCB website:

The Catholic Catechism teaches that in the realm of immigration law all governments have two essential duties, both of which must be carried out and neither of which can be ignored.

The first duty is to welcome the foreigner out of charity and respect for the dignity and rights of the human person. Persons have the right to immigrate and thus government must accommodate this right to the greatest extent possible, consistent with its other obligations to the common good. The right to immigrate is a therefore a qualified, rather than an absolute right. Nevertheless, all nations and especially financially blessed nations are called to make every possible effort to assist persons who are compelled by their circumstances to migrate. As the Catechism states:

"The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.” 1

The second duty of government is to secure its border and enforce immigration law for the sake of the common good, including the safety and well-being of the nation’s inhabitants and the rule of law. Sovereign nations thus have the right and the responsibility to enforce immigration laws and all persons must respect and obey the legitimate exercise of this authority. For their part, immigrants are called to obey the law and carry out their civic duties in furtherance of the common good. 2 According to the Catechism:

“Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants' duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens." 3

Do you think that today's illegal immigrants are respecting the heritage of our country when they refuse to learn english? Do you think that illegals are obeying our country's laws when they enter our country illegally and don't pay taxes?
I think the Bishop needs to tell both sides of the story and challenge everyone to follow catholic teaching.

I recall something in the Bible about: Give to Ceasar what belongs to Ceasar, Give to God what belongs to God.

I think that means, follow the law of the land.

Of course we are all free to try to change laws we feel are unjust or no longer correct.

The church appears to be pandering to its large hispanic demographic group.

The church should be supporting those who are waiting to get to the US, LEGALLY. Our ancestors waited their turn to come to America and had to pledge that the would not become a burden to society. The Catholic church should help these illegals return to their homeland and wait in line like everyone else.
THE BISHOP SHOULD PUT HIS MONEY WHERE HIS MOUTH IS AND HELP THOSE WHO ARE ILLEGAL TO RETURN TO THEIR HOMELAND AND WAIT FOR THEIR TURN TO COME TO THE US.
Don't put a Catholic guilt trip on those who are doing their job.

That's insane. If you refuse to do your job you should be fired. Plain and simple. The bishop is just nervous about all of the empty pews and collection buckets he's seeing all over the state due to Rhode Island's infamous pedophile priests. He must figures he's got a clean slate with all of the illegals.

I love it - when your Govenor wanted to cut all kinds of aid to children, elderly, poor, etc. he suggested that the churches step in to pick up the slack and all you minions agreed. Now that the church has an opinion you are all up in arms. This is the first time in my life I am proud of a decision by the Catholic church. Right on Bishop!

Why hasn't Bishop Tobin spoken out against the arrest of Evan Berger. Evan is the 18 year old who was arrested for allegedly stealing $50k from SS. John and James Church in W. Warwick. According to the Bishop's letter “As religious leaders we understand and support the need to apprehend and arrest individuals who are responsible for felonies and other serious crimes. The enforcement of just laws is necessary for public safety and the common good. But the arrest of serious criminals is not what we have observed in the arrest and detention of immigrants that has taken place recently in our State, particularly in Newport and in Providence.” Evan is not a serious criminal. He took money from envelopes. He didn't use a waepon or threaten anyone. So it is OK for the Church to install cameras and bring in the police to arrest someone stealing from them...but the government can't arrest people who are also breaking the law and stealing from all of us?

The Bishop should act like a Christian and financially help these ILLEGALS to return to their homeland and wait in line like everyone else to enter the US legally. The Church should not be encouraging criminal acts
our putting Catholic guilt trips on those who are enforcing our laws.

Michael is spot on. Let us not forget the Catholic School Closings, the Abandonment of Neighborhoood Parishes, and the Reduction in Catholic Health Care; all to provide monies to pay the penalty for abusing the truly innocent children of the church. Were these actions in the "Best Interests of the Flock", or were they expedient actions to try to buy a way out of Hell for the abominations presided over by the church.

When Tobin suggests that these illegals are here not by their fault, but by ours; it's a pathetic rationalization of why he and his group of 14 are victims of the children who were "placed at their disposal"!

Maybe Jesus wouldn't deport the illegals, but God would flood the land around them, and let only the chosen few float. Hmm, do you think that would work? It did once. . .

Sure, Tobin has the right to speak his views. However let us not forget the crumbled ruins, Tobin and his kind represent.

Joe said,
"The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin."

Yah. Except it is WE in the sovereign nation, not the Bishop, who get to say what is right and appropriate. And we have done that; we passed laws. Now, everyone who is illegal...out of the pool. It's called the "rule of law".

The US already accepts LEGALLY, more people than the rest of the world combined. I think that is more than enough. People who enter illegally are STEALING. Stealing the place in line of someone who waits legally. Stealing social services that are paid for with my taxes and meant for my children.

I am a Catholic and very sad to see the actions of Bishop Tobin. Not only should people who break the law be rounded up, those that employ them should be punished as well. The political leaders who promulgated this invasion should be held accountable as well. How any American could support any Democrat or Republican or Church or media outlet that supports this policy is beyond me. If we don't protect on national sovereignty what does it mean to be an American. Did Jesus let the money lenders who didn't belong in the Temple stay and continue to prey on the congregation or did he show them the door? Would the bishop welcome me, my family and a few dozen friends to raid his refrigerator, sleep in the bed of our choice in the rectory and hang our laundry across the alter because we thought it a good idea, would the bishop welcome us for an indefinite stay? Who cares about the working poor in the US whose wages are taxed to support these foreign criminals. How does the bishop think anyone gains when you rob Peter to pay Paul (or in this case Pablo)? If the bishop wants to help the poor he should address the real problems such as corrupt governments in the third world, not the actions of American civil servants.

What an an embarrassment! He should be removed from his position as Bishop.

First of all, is the Bishop inferring that if someone breaks a law but soes it to provide for their family and that if time passes it should just be forgotten about?

A couple of years ago a friend of mine was on vacation in California and a man walked up behind him nad demanded money. When My friend resisted a struggle ensued and he was stabbed through the heart. The knife went so deep it protruded from his back. Now the mans defense was that he didn't mean to do it. He was only trying to provide food and clothing for his homeless family (he had a wife and two children. they were young but I do not remember their ages). Would the Bishop be arguing that this man "didn't mean to do it" or had no intention of killing when he set out to rob this friend of mine.

No Bishop stick to religion and let our country's law enforcement and ICE personnel do their job. While I agree with the "conciencious objector" Law referring to our soldiers when we are at war, a man or woman joins the ICE with the full knowledge that it is his/her job to arrest, investiagate and deport if neccessary all illegal aliens. And if any one of them objects to that they should be fired and charged with fraud. Because if they go to work for this agency under the premis that they will fullfill the duties of their position and receive training, then refuse to do it that is fraud in any senseof the word.

I think we should question the morals and ethics of the Catholic church here. First they thought it was moral to let priests get away with molesting young boys and girls. Second remember the church realizes that their coffers would shrink without the illegal immigrants were not around to fill them every week end. Their please should fall on death ears given their past moral and ethics. This appears to be another self-serving statement from the Catholic church itself.

wow!is almost increteable so much hate is expres in many of this comments.What happend to love one another? Looking for a better life suppoustly USA offers,nobody mentions that immigrants work jobs nobody wants,can't claim taxes,nor unemploytment benefits,no desability benefits ,no social security,ect.What is done with all the millions they put into the system that they can't claim?God made the world for all, not for some.God bless you all, where ever you go.

The Bishop is Wrong. And all you LIBERALS out there who support the Bishop and the ILLEGAL Aliens should go out and spend more of your parents trust fund money on these Illegals. STOP Taxes everyone else to pay for them. THEY ARE BREAKING U.S. LAWS. ARE YOU LIBERALS BRAIN DEAD? I guess Michael Savage was right to state that Liberalism is a mental disorder.

I'm Catholic and again my church is out of touch with reality.

An ICE officer, like all law ENFORCEMENT officers take an oath to uphold the Constitution of their state and nation. They take an oath to enforce the law. If they are unable to fulfill that oath due to faith based concerns, then they must resign.

The catholic church is great with putting guilt on people. Bishop, is this what you are trying to do here?

Let law enforcement do their job. If you or anyone else doesn't like our laws, change them in the process established when our nation and state were formed.

The law is the law and by coming here illegally they deserve deportation. What part of the Bible advocates violating the law of the land? There isn't one - if fact the Bible says we are to OBEY THE LAW. Get a clue, Mr. Tobin, you are advocating something that is contrary to Christian teachings and contrary to the law of the land.

"Thou shalt not steal"

The Catholic Church is the most richest and most hypocritical organization in the world. Maybe Bishop Tobin will loosen some of the church millions to support these illegals so the honest taxpayers don't have to.

How ironic that Catholics get to choose which parts of the bible they want to 'enforce'. When it comes to illegal immigrants, the consensus here on this forum seems to be 'seek, locate, exterminate' in accordance with upholding the law of the land.

When it comes to forcing a doctor following the law of the land and providing legal medical treatment that may conflict with his own personal religious views, the consensus is that he should be able to deny this treatment.

And if an elected official or judge responsible for representing a plurality of faiths is asked to decide on the issue of gay marriage, he must automatically follow what his boss in Rome says, right? Even if this means completely abrogating his sworn duty to represent the men and women who elected him.

I'm not using this forum to advance one opinion over another, i am merely pointing out the inconsistency of the arguments being advanced by the theocratic folks rushing to embrace Taliban-style religious law.

THe Catholic has spent billions on sex scandals money intended to help the poor- instead it when to pay off the Catholic priests who vould not keep their pants zipped up.The Catholic promises all sorts of things when all all their monet went to cover up legal fee's .Catholic are busy shaking you with the right hand why busy stabbing you in the back with the left hand.Catholic's central concern is filling the pews and wtaching the dollars grow from their 50 milliom dollar homes to pay off all thosr sex scandals and this goes back as far as the $ 50's until curent events and many who do this are illegal akiens